19_22_ртуєёЄр_1991_уюфр

-Radio Petrozavodsk was heard in Finnish at 1510 UTC on 765 KHz from the Karelian ASSR. News and weather report trying to sound like nothing has happened.

-On 1512 KHz I heard something very curious. This transmitter is located

- as far as I remember - somewhere in Eastern Estonia or Western Russia and usually it relays Radio Mayak. Yesterday they were broadcasting declarations of Boris Yeltsin directed to Soviet soldiers. I don't understand Russian but it was easy to understand that the junta was called "group of stalinist criminals" ('gruppa stalinitski kriminalnii'). I wonder if this station is

on the air today... Unfortunately declarations did not help when the army attacked the radio- and tv-station in Tallinn last night. -Radio Leningrad was broadcasting own programmes on 801 KHz. They had a report from some meeting where people condemned the junta. According to Finnish television the Leningrad radio & tv is still under the controll of the radical local leadership. The

television station is also reported to openly criticize the junta. Unfortunately we are not able to watch Leningrad TV in Finland. The Finnish news-agency STT reported that army troops have not tried to occupy Leningrad but the whole area is free. This also means that Radio Leningrad on 801 KHz is continously on the air with programmes hostile to the junta. Their transmitter on 801 KHz is very strong and it can be heard widely in Northern Europe. -Radio Moscow foreign service is run by hard-liners. The Finnish programme is now what it was during the Brezhnev era. Their frequencies are 1494, 7115, 9800, 11675 and 11950 KHz. Progrmmes in other Scandinavian languages are also aired on these frequencies, as well as Radio Moscow World Service directed to Northern Europe & British Isles during night-time.

-The Finnish news-agency STT reports that news-agencies TASS and Interfax

as well as some news-papers are openly publishing material which is hostile to the junta.

-No jamming noted. People in the USSR are able to hear foreign radio stations on medium- and short-waves, and also domestic radio stations hostile to the junta.

SUMMARY

The coup in the USSR is curious. It seems that the 8-member junta has serious troubles in taking over the media of the country. There are loopholes in censorship. Most of the radio stations & other media is controlled by the junta but there are radio & tvнstations and journalists who just don't follow the orders of the junta. I think there are two alternative explanations. The first one is that the junta is weaker than expected. Rumous about the inner split in the junta could support this theory. The other explanation is that the junta has not used all the power and force it could use.

#Jorma Mantyla

#University of Tampere

#Finland

Xref: relcom talk.politics.soviet:3876 soc.culture.soviet:879 Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!unido!opal!gmdtub!bigfoot!ivo From: ivo@Lessing.first.gmd.de (Ivo Haulsen)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet Subject: Re: PLEASE post your surface mail addresses Message-ID: <IVO.91Aug21082858@Lessing.first.gmd.de> Date: 21 Aug 91 06:28:58 GMT

References: <35178@usc.edu>

Sender: news@bigfoot.first.gmd.de

Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet

Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin

Lines: 14

In-reply-to: kriz@skat.usc.edu's message of 20 Aug 91 11:34:22 GMT

Ivo Haulsen

Mittenwalderstr. 29

1000 Berlin 61

email: ivo@gmdtub.uucp

phone: 0049-30-6922731

(You can reach a russian speaking person)

ATTENTION: REPLY TO THE ADDRESS BELOW (NOT THE ADDRESS IN THE HEADER)! --------------------------------------------------------н---------------------Ivo Haulsen ivo@gmdtub.uucp

GMD FIRST

Hardenbergplatz 2 (German National Research Center D-1000 Berlin 12, Fed. Rep. of Germany for Computer Science) Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!elan!lynn From: lynn@elan.Elan.COM (Lynn Gazis)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: Western folks consider posting your addresses Message-ID: <1057@elan.Elan.COM>

Date: 20 Aug 91 16:15:36 GMT

References: <01G9KO2Z5UCW0001P8@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> <1056@elan.Elan.COM> Reply-To: lynn@elan.elan.com (Lynn Gazis) Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

Lines: 5

Surface mail (since it didn't seem to get out to this group before) is:

Lynn Gazis-Sax

2727 Midtown #37

it would have been almost impossible to >preserve their positions of power and influence. This was the last chance >they were going to have, and they took it.

Has anyone noticed that many of the people that are now saying "If we

had only helped him more, this wouldn't have happened" are the same

ones that said "We shouldn't help them until we see more reforms"????

Food for thought...

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!gatech!prism!ccastmg From: ccastmg@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael G. Goldsman)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: News of the morning (EST that is...)

Message-ID: <35173@hydra.gatech.EDU>

Date: 21 Aug 91 11:26:16 GMT

Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Lines: 22

7:15 eastern standard time

CNN is repoyrting that Yeltsin is saying that the Coup leaders

are trying to leave moscow on a okane.

They are saying that its an unconfirmed report.

they are also reporting that a delagaton may be able to visit Gorbachov.

they say that yeltsin will not be a member due to security reasons.

The tone of the commentators has become guardedly optimistic.

Only time will tell...

John Major is about to speak.. See you guys later ---------------------

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

---------------------н-----------------------------------------------------------------н-----Mike Goldsman __o o__ o__ o__ o__ 36004 Ga Tech Station _ \<,_ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ _.>/ _ Atlanta, Georgia 30332 (_)/ (_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_)

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!wupost!usc!apple!ig!bradley.bradley. edu!pwh From: pwh@BRADLEY.BRADLEY.EDU (Pete Hartman)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: U.S. ambassador to the USSR

Message-ID: <9108210509.AA06490@bradley.bradley.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 05:09:42 GMT

References: <sharon@UNIXLAND.NATICK.MA.US> <9108201951.AA18989@sonne.cs.UMD.EDU> Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet>

Lines: 13

In talk.politics.soviet you write:

>Congratulations, you are at least the tenth person to come up >with the same conspiracy theory. Maybe you are all correct. >But please read the group before posting.

>We currently

>have at least three Russians risking their lives to keep >information flowing through the last 2400 baud link to the >West. Let's keep bad net.ettiquette on other newsgroups.

Not to be TOO self-righteous, but aren't you contributing the very same bad net.ettiquette?

Just thought it was worth mentioning....

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!lllнwinken!ames!ig!cleveland.freenet.edu!ai260 From: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu ("J. Fisher")

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu

Lines: 19

On Mon Aug 19 1991 JOHN%ANASAZ.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (John Moore) replied quite caustically to

<35056@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt1111a@prism.gatech.EDU (Vincent Fox) VF> There are a lot of things that really stick in my craw about this whole VF> thing. Number 1 would be that we could have possibly averted all this

VF> by some shipments of wheat, some tractors, and some experts. But NOOOO... VF> Wouldn't be prudent, gotta wait for more reforms before we think about VF> helping the Soviets. Sure it would have cost billions, but considerably VF> less than all those new weapons our military will now want to buy.

JM> All evidence points to the coup to reject the union treaty. Our aid

JM> would have had no effect on that. Why don't you take your AMERICAN JM> politcs to talk.politics or misc.headlines.

It seems to me that VF is sympathetic to your 'cause'. Why are

you telling him to take a hike? I doubt that you really want to alienate people... or...?

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!w107 zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.dbp.de!elsn4000 From: elsn4000@w107zrz.zrz.tuнberlin.dbp.de (Frank Elsner)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: Western folks consider posting your addresses Message-ID: <9108210736.AA17180@w107zrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de*> Date: 21 Aug 91 11:43:22 GMT

References: <DFNGATE:Nd8Xjbdu*> <91.6:35.pm*>

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: Frank Elsner <elsner@zrz.tu-berlin.dbp.de>

Lines: 6

Here is my Smail address:

Frank Elsner

Marschnerstr. 47

D-1000 Berlin 45

Germany <- Thanks, Gorby.

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!ig!samford.b itnet!GLWARNER From: GLWARNER@samford.bitnet (THE GAR)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Kasparov on Tonight Show

Message-ID: <TPS-L%91082106382436@INDYCMS.BITNET>

Date: 21 Aug 91 05:55:55 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet> Organization: Samford University Computer Services

Lines: 19

Kasparov got the last slot on the show, where there is really not enough time left to say very much. He spoke of vacationing in Malibu, and a bit about Bobby Fischer. But the rest of the time he talked about playing chess for the most part. He did mention that probably 90% of Soviets were against the coup (in his estimation) and that he had not played any chess since it began. All he has done is watched CNN.

BTW. If anyone wants a list of Fax numbers for major media offices,

let me know. I have one that came off Peace Net back about six months ago. There are probably a couple hundred numbers on the list, or I would just go ahead and post it. /+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++\

! Later + Systems Programmer ! ! Gary Warner + Samford University Computer Services ! ! + II TIMOTHY 2:15 ! \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++/

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!ig!siucvmb.b itnet!ST8172 From: ST8172@siucvmb.bitnet

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet> Lines: 23

In an interview aired tonight on ABC Television's Nightline with Boris Yeltsin barricaded inside the Russian Parliament Building, Yeltsin alluded to certain unnamed individuals in the background who are secretly weilding the power behind the emergency committee.

If this is true, I wonder if the sudden illnesses of Pavlov, Yanov and Krushkov can best be viewed as a purge of the 'Gang of Eight'-either for opposition or lack of resolve to carry out the coop.

What do you think of this (admittedly conspiracy) theory? Are the 'Gang of Eight' really calling the shots or are there other, more sinister figures in the background?

If so, who might these people be? Any ideas?

----

To all are courageous Russian friends: Keep the faith! and remember the words of the great spiritual of the American Civil Rights Movement 'We Shall Overcome'

The whole world is behind you, and you shall overcome!

Jerry Probst

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!clev eland.freenet.edu!ai260 From: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu ("J. Fisher")

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: The West missed an opportunity

Message-ID: <9108210807.AA18710@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 08:07:43 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu

Lines: 46

On: Tue Aug 20 1991 dierick%KETJE.ENET.DEC.COM@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (Dominique Dierick) said:

> When I hear president Bush and prime minister Major demand the

> re-installation of Gorbatchov I find it kind of hypocrite. For > years Gorbatchov has asked for financial support but he really > got peanuts from us. The German cancellor Kohl was the only one > willing to support fully. Now it is too late again. If we had

> given Gorbatchov our full support, hewould have been more popular > in the Soviet Union and the hard liners wouldn't have found

> support for their coup.

> Let's be realistic. I have watched BBC last night and there are > NO signs of massive resistance. A couple of thousand people on

> the streets is not what is going to stop the junta in power now.

> The people in the SU, especially in major cities have lack of

> food and essential medical care, that's what they will remember > most from the Gorbatchov time. For most of them everything is

> better then Gorbatchov. If people don't have to fight daily for > survival they will have the time to be busy with politics.

> I am affraid there is not much we can do to help the people

> there. We can stop our tiny little bit of financial suppport we > do give to the SU, but that won't make a difference. What else

> can be done ? Going in with armed forces ? You got to be joking ! > Military the SU is not a third world country.

> The only thing we can hope for is that there won't get people

> killed. Peace for you over there !

> Had to give my impression on this sad event, and these are my

> personal impressions...

> Dominique

I would agree wholeheartedly... and add that President Gorbachev didn't-- IMO-- get the internal support he should have. I would imagine that for many he's a more appealing figure than he was last yesterday.

ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu -orнai260%cleveland.freenet.edu@cunyvm

Familiarity breeds contempt. --Mark Twain

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!usc!apple!ig!samford.bitnet!GLWARNER From: GLWARNER@samford.bitnet (THE GAR)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Nightline Report

Message-ID: <TPS-L%91082106383185@INDYCMS.BITNET>

Date: 21 Aug 91 04:45:37 GMT Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet> Organization: Samford University Computer Services

Lines: 48

I am watching the American news program, NIGHTLINE.

There was a description of the first fatalities of the coup, with some camera footage.

It seems four armored personnel carriers were attacked by a mob of people as they moved in the direction of the

"White House". Moloktov cocktails caused one of the APCs to catch on fire, and they ended up retreating. However,

they fired into the air, and some say into the crowd as they retreated. One person is dead of a gunshot wound, and two others are dead from being run over by the retreating vehicles. An estimated twelve others were injured in unspecified ways.

Other things in the news included talk of Pavlov,

Yazov, and the KGB director and their respective "illnesses". Pavlov was confirmed to be removed from the committee "because of high blood pressure".

Americans in the state department said that there were too many Soviet leaders suddenly taking ill to be believable.

Other footage showed Yeltzin and Shevarnasi speaking to an enormous crowd, and people passing bricks and boards down a row to be used to help build barricades around the Russian President's base.

Next they will be showing Diane Sawyer's interview with the President of Russia.

Oh, they also have shown excerpts that were received by a clandestine fax machine network. I wonder what the media would say about us! I think we should not attract media

attention by telling reporters about our sources. What is the consensus of the group. Tell them? Or no? I know my local TV

stations would think this very important. They are 3interviewing everyone who has ever been to the USSR in the entire state it seems like.

May God bless and protect the people of the Soviet Union. /+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++\

! Later + Systems Programmer ! ! Gary Warner + Samford University Computer Services ! ! + II TIMOTHY 2:15 ! \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++/

Xref: relcom soc.culture.soviet:882 talk.politics.soviet:3888 soc.rights.human:1238 Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!cpg

From: cpg@cs.utexas.edu (Carlos M. Puchol)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.rights.human

Subject: Re: Western folks consider posting your addresses Message-ID: <1831@nada.cs.utexas.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 11:54:30 GMT

References: <1991Aug20.174928.29843@rice.edu>

Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet

Organization: Dept of Computer Sciences, UTexas, Austin

Lines: 7

Count one more:

Carlos M. Puchol P.O. Box 7817 Austin, TX, 78712

cpg@cs.utexas.edu

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!wupost!usc!apple!ig!samford.bitnet!G LWARNER From: GLWARNER@samford.bitnet (THE GAR)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: More Nightline

Message-ID: <TPS-L%91082106382796@INDYCMS.BITNET>

Date: 21 Aug 91 05:25:35 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet> Organization: Samford University Computer Services

Lines: 51

Nightline had a panel of experts on, and asked them about the situation. Brit Hume (a reporter who works at the White House in America) says that the coup "lacks the brutal efficiency that we have come to associate with the Soviets" and says that their hesitancy to use force has problem doomed the coup.

Zbigniew Brzenzenski says that the General Strike must be heeded if the coup is to be stopped.

Former Ambassador Matlock says that the coup shows a lack of planning and that if the coup moves against Yeltzin now, it will only make him a martyr and guarantee civil war.

Pierre Sallinger (a political analyst) says that the coup came about as a result of Gorbachev giving up too much in the START treaties, and the

Union Treaty that was about to be signed.

Nightline then spoke with Colonel Viktor Alksnis of the Soviet Air Force. Alksnis says that Marshall Yazor has definitely NOT resigned and that

he had spoken recently with Yazor's adjutant to confirm this. He also claimed that Westerners were over exagerrating Yeltzin's influence. He said that the strikes were not popular and that for only 20 or 30,000 people in a country of millions to be paying attention to Yeltzin was insignificant.

Alksnis had proposed a similar emergency committee about 6 months ago. He pointed out that his proposal was for a constitutional committee, but he said that he was pleased with the overall results so far.

He also said that the rumours that an attack against Yeltzin had been planned were obviously proven wrong.

Vladimir Posner was also on the program. I gather that he is something like a talk show host in Moscow. He said that Pavlov, Yazov, and the KGB chief were "rats on a sinking ship", and that the committee was

moving so slowly because they were "not very bright people. You saw them at the press conference today" he said. Did they look like people who could make intelligent decisions. He called them "boorish".

Posner also pointed out that roughly 25% of the Soviet public were in favor of the coup and agreed that they were doing the right things.

I go now. Garry Kasparov is about to come on the Tonight Show. /+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++\

! Later + Systems Programmer

! Gary Warner + Samford University Computer Services

! ! + II TIMOTHY 2:15

! \+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++/

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!cat. syr.edu!anderson From: anderson@CAT.SYR.EDU (Joseph Anderson) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: am I registered?

Message-ID: <9108211048.AA09691@cat.syr.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 10:48:26 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet>

Lines: 3

May seem a silly question but not one drop of information so far

what gives?

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!usc!apple!ig!stetson.bitnet!STEEVES From: STEEVES@stetson.bitnet

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Church in revolution

Message-ID: <TPS-L%91082106560269@INDYCMS.BITNET>

Date: 21 Aug 91 02:13:00 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPSнL@indycms.bitnet> Lines: 8

Radio Liberty reports that Yeltsin has asked

the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox church, Alexis II, not to stand aside from the current problems. So far no word that the patriarch has spoken out.

Paul Steeves

Stetson University

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!pollux.usc.ed u!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: some hasty translations

Message-ID: <35211@usc.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:01:44 GMT

Sender: news@usc.edu

Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 160

Nntp-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

Originator: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu

Path: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-

state.edu!wupost!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!fuug!demos!newsнserver From: polina@jumbo.hq.demos.su (Polina Antonova) Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet Subject: Re: ? Message-ID: <AD9jJie0a0@jumbo.hq.demos.su>

Date: 20 Aug 91 16:54:49 GMT

Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su Reply-To: polina@jumbo.hq.demos.su

Organization: DEMOS, Moscow, USSR

Lines: 165

Xref: usc talk.politics.soviet:8175

wOT NABL@DENIQ IZ NESKOLXKIH GORODOW. pISXMA PRODOLVA@T POSTUPATX. G. dIMITROWGRAD, uLXQNOWSKOJ OBL.

GORODSKAQ GAZETA "dIMITROWGRAD-pANORAMA" OPUBLIKOWALA OBRA]ENIE eLXCINA.

wEDETSQ SBOR PODPISEJ W PODDERVKU

ZAKONNO WYBRANNOGO rOSSIJSKOGO RUKOWODSTWA.

w GORODE SPOKOJNO.

Here are some news from several cities. Letters keep on coming... Dimittrovgrad (Ulyanovskaya Oblast)

City newspaper "Dimitrovgrad-panarama" published Yetltsin's speech. Signatures are being collected for the support of lawfully elected Russian government. All is quiet in the city,

kIEW:

w kIEWE OTNOSITELXNO SPOKOJNO, PO\TOMU WSE WOSPRINIMAETSQ

KAK GLUPAQ [UTKA. wMESTE S TEM NE POSTUPAET INFORMACIQ PO tw.

q BYL W 12.30 NA CENTRALXNOJ PLO]ADI.

gRUPPA L@DEJ DO 100 ^ELOWEK OBSUVDALA NOWOSTI. nOWOSTI TAKIE: -IDET ZASEDANIE pREZIDIUMA wERHOWNOGO sOWETA uKRAINY;

-W^ERA W kIEW PRIEZVAL ZAM. qZOWA I IMEL BESEDU S kRAW^UKOM (SODERVANIE

NE IZWESTNO);

Kiev:

It is relatively quiet in Kiev as it all seems like a silly joke from here. On top of this, relevant information is not being supplied on the TV.

I was on the central square at 12:30. A group of about 100 people

was

discussing the news. The news are as follows:

- The session of the Ukranian Supreme Soviet is currently in

progress

- General Yazov's assistant visited Kiev yesterday and had a chat

with

Kravchuk (contents of the talk unknown).

-19 WE^EROM PO tw WYSTUPAL kRAW^UK. pRIZYWAL K SPOKOJSTWI@. oTMETIL, ^TO ws uKRAINY DO SIH POR NE IMEET DOSTOWERNOJ I POLNOJ INFORMACII O PROISHODQ]IH SOBYTIQH. pROZWU^ALA FRAZA O NE KONSTITUCIONNYH METODAH SMENY PRAWITELXSTWA. pRIZWAL SOBL@DATX SPOKOJSTWIE I PRIDERVIWATXSQ ZAKONOW uKRAINY.

On the evening of the 19th, Kravchuk spoke on the TV. He appealed to

maintain quiet and calm. HE pointed out that Supreme Soviet of the Ukraine still has no full or reliable information regarding the current events. (He slipped in) a sentence about "unconstitutional methods of changing the government". (He) called on (the people) to keep calm and respect the Ukranian law.

nA 15 ^ASOW SOBIRAETSQ BOLX[OJ MITING NA PLO]ADI. ~LENY ruhA ZAQWLQ@T,

^TO E]E NE WYRABOTANA EDINAQ TAKTIKA DEJSTWIJ RUHOWCEW, NO O^EWIDNO

BUDET PRIZYW K PROWEDENI@ AKCIJ GRAVDANSKOGO NEPOWINOWENIQ

pOZICIQ ws uKRAINY IZLOVENA W INTERWX@ zAM. PREDSEDATELQ ws wLADIMIRA gRINEWA GAZETE "kOMSOMOLXSKOE ZNAMQ"

A big meeting is expected at 15:00 on the square. Members of RUKH

are

proclaiming that RUKH has still not reached a unified position or tactic, however, it seems like there will be a call to commit acts

civil disobedience.

Position of the Supreme Soviet of Ukraine is expressed in the interview with Asst. Chairman of the SS, Vladimir Grinev, in the newspaper "Komsomol's Flag".

kOR.: fAKTI^ESKI PO RADIO ZAQWLENO O ROSPUSKE ZAKONNOJ WLASTI W

RESPUBLIKE. nO MY RAZGOWARIWAEM S WAMI W WA[EM KABINENTE, TANKOW I BRONETRANSPORTEROW NET. zNA^IT LI \TO, ^TO PRODOLVAET

DEJSTWOWATX

kONSTITUCIQ uKRAINY.

gRI.: nESOMNENNO. pOKA WSE FUNKCIONIRUET. w BLIVAJ[IE ^ASY SOBERETSQ pREZIDIUM wERHOWNOGO sOWETA. mY SOBEREM \KSTRENNU@ SESSI@

ws I BUDEM RE[ATX PROBLEMY, KAK PRISTALO ZAKONNOJ WLASTI W SOOTWETSWII

S ZAKONODATELXSTWOM I kONSTITUCIEJ RESPUBLIKI.

w REGIONAH uKRAINY SEGODNQ SLOVNAQ OBSTANOWKA, SWQZANNAQ S POLNOJ NEOPREDELENNOSTX@. zABLOKIROWANY KANALY ct I cENTRALNOGO RADIO. sWQZX w~ W wERHOWNOM SOWETE ZABLOKIROWANA.

eSTX NEOPREDELENNOSTX I W SAMOM ws. mY E]E NE DO KONCA RAZOBRALISX S OBSTOQTELXSTWAMI PRI KOTORYH PROHODIL PUT^, KAKOWA POZICIQ

OTDELXNYH POLITI^ESKIH LIDEROW.

KF: Essentially, the disbanding of the lawful government of the Republic was announced on the radio. Still, we are now talking in your office; there are no tanks or armored vehicles outside. Do you know if the Ukranian constitution is still in force?

Grinev: Undoubtedly. So far, everything is functioning (normally). In the next few hours, the SS presidium will convene. We will gather the extraordinary session of the SS and will (try to) solve the problem as befits the lawful government in accordance with the laws and the constitution of the republic.

The situation is quite complex in the regions of the Ukraine due to complete lack of coordination. The TV and radio channels are blocked. There is some uncertainty even in the SS. We've still not completed sorting out the circumstances of the putsch; the individual postions of certain political leaders.

sANKT-pETERBURG:

eSLI KOROTKO, TO ATMOSFERA W GORODE DOWOLXNO OPTIMIS-

TI^NA. nAROD RE[ITELEN, HOTQ NEPOHOVE, ^TOBY KTO-TO SOBIRAL-

SQ BASTOWATX (VDUT DALXNEJ[IH SOBYTIJ). eSLI OBSTANOWKA BU-

DET UHUD[ATXSQ O^ENX MNOGIE PRIDUT ZA]I]ATX ZDANIE mARIINSKOGO DWORCA.

Saint-Petersburg:

Briefly, the atmosphere in the city is quite optimistic.

The masses are resolute, yet it doesn't appear as if anyone is about to go on strike (everyone is awaiting further developments). If things worsen, many will come to defend the building of

Maria's Castle (Mariinskiy Dvoretz).

20 AWG 1991

uTROM U METRO RASKLEENY LISTOWKI. wOKRUG NIH - TOLPY. nEKO-

TORYE WESELO WSLUH RUGA@T KOMMUNISTOW - PUT^ISTOW. w METRO

NA STENAH KOE - GDE LISTOWKI.

nA nEWSKOM - MNOVESTWO INFORMACII. rASKLEENY LISTOWKI S uKAZAMI eLXCINA, "sMENA", "nEWSKOE WREMQ", "~AS PIK".

dNEM STONOWITSQ IZWESTNO, ^TO POD s.-pETERBURGOM DWI-

VETSQ BRONETEHNIKA.

12:00 nA iSSAKIEWSKOJ PLO]ADI IDET MITING. mNOGO L@DEJ (TYSQ^I ^ETYRE). sTOIT mA[INA gERMANSKOGO KONSULA. w NEJ DWOE. rABOTAET RADIO (KAKAQ-TO NA[A SWOBODNAQ RADIOSTANCIQ). wOKRUG MA[INY STOQT L@DI I SLU[A@T.

pRIMERNO S 17:00 PO RADIOTRANSLQCII WKL@^A@T (PRQMO)

lENSOWET.

August 20th, 1991.

Leaflets were posted in the metro this morning. There are crowds around them. Some people are cheerfully and loudly cursing

communists - putsch instigators.

On the Nevsky - plenty of information. Proclamations with Yeltsin's

decrees, "Smena", "Nevskoe Vermya", "Chas Pik".

It becomes known during the day that armored columns are moving in the

St. Petersburg's environs.

There is a meeting going on at 12:00 on the Isaakievskiy Square. Lots of people (ca. 4,000). German consul's car is there (there are two people in it). The radio is broadcasting some free station. Many people are standing around the car and listening.

----------------------

Gene Tsudik

Spiritually at the University of Southern Califlower Physically at the IBM Zurich Research Laboratory Path:

relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!pollux.usc.ed u!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: more translations

Message-ID: <35212@usc.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:03:14 GMT

Sender: news@usc.edu

Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Lines: 50

Nntp-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

Originator: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu

Path: usc!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohioнstate.edu!ucbvax!bloomнbeacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!sics.se!fuug!demos!news-server From: any@jumbo.hq.demos.su (Anna Treger)

Newsgroups: relcom.politics,talk.politics.soviet

Subject: <none>

Message-ID: <AATBMiemw0@jumbo.hq.demos.su>

Date: 20 Aug 91 19:43:41 GMT

Sender: news-server@kremvax.hq.demos.su

Reply-To: any@jumbo.hq.demos.su

Organization: DEMOS, Moscow, USSR

Lines: 16

Xref: usc talk.politics.soviet:8207

Subject: INFORMACIQ IZ STA^KOMA n.nOWGORODA

w^ERA (19/08/91) nIVEGORODSKOE TELEWIDENIE ZA^ITALO OBRA]ENIE g~k I T.eLXCINA b.n.,A TAKVE SOOB]ENIE O SOZYWE ^REZ-

WY^AJNOJ SESSII GORSOWETA ZA PODPISX@ ZAM.PREDSEDATELQ GORSO-

WETA sABA[NIKOWA.w^ERA W 17.00 SOSTOQLSQ MITING W PODDERVKU eLXCINA S U^ASTIEM DEPUTATOW OBLASTI I RESPUBLIKI.sEGODNQ W 17.00 SOSTOQTSQ MITINGI W CENTRE GORODA I NA aWTOZAWODE,GDE BUDET SOZDAN SWOJ STA^KOM.fUNKCIONIRUET GORODSKOJ STA^KOM(TEL.8 8312-39-01н42).zAREGISTRIROWANY 5 KRUPNYH PREDPRIQTIJ,OB'QWIW[IH ZABASTOWKU.W GORODE OBSTANOWKA SPOKOJNAQ,WOENNYH NE WIDNO.oDNAKO OTSUTSWUET DOSTOWERNAQ INFORMACIQ O POLOVENII W STRANE I mOSKWE.pO GORODU HODQT SLUHI O SUDXBE gORBA^EWA m.s.(WPLOTX DO EGO SMERTI).sTA^KOM PROSIT SOOB]ITX INFORMACI@ PO TELEFONU ILI ^EREZ NAS.vDEM OTWETA.

pEREDAL w.w.bORODIN

Information from Nizhniy Novgorod:

Yesterday, Yeltsin's appeal to the people was broadcasted on the local TVa along with the announcement of the extraordinary session of the city soviet. YEsterday at 17:00 a rally in support of Yeltsin was held; regional deputees participated. Today at 17:00 there will be a rally

in the city center where a strike committee will be formed. .... ... Five sizeable factories/plants have committed to the strike. In general, the atmosphere is calm in the city, there are no troops to be seen.

However, reliable information about the situation in the country

(and Moscow) is lacking. There are rumors about Gorby's fate (even concerning his death). ...

transmitted by V.V. Borodin

----------------------

Gene Tsudik

Spiritually at the University of Southern Califlower Physically at the IBM Zurich Research Laboratory

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-

state.edu!usc!apple!ig!virginia.bitnet!ECR6R From: ECR6R@virginia.bitnet

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: Stop the addresses? (Was: Re: Western folks consider posting

your

Message-ID: <9108210140.AA17249@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU>

Date: 21 Aug 91 01:40:22 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-

L@indycms.bitnet> Lines: 2

YES! Enough addresses, you are clogging the networks and NOT

being helpful.

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!decwrl!sgi!cdp!hmuskat

From: hmuskat@cdp.UUCP

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: Soviet Bulletin #25

Message-ID: <1483700011@cdp>

Date: 21 Aug 91 01:52:00 GMT

References: <10984086@0C24A63100A00C6B@vax1.umkc.edu>

Lines: 10

Nf-ID: #R:0C24A63100A00C6B@vax1.umkc.edu:-

1098408682:cdp:1483700011:000:215 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hmuskat Aug 20 18:52:00 1991

Can you kindly site sources to support the statement:

>While Cuba, Iraq, the PLO and Libya applauded the fall of Gorbachev

if you can respond here as well as to me by email, I'd appreciate it. Thanks

Hal Muskat

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!decwrl!sgi!cdp!rbernstein From: rbernstein@cdp.UUCP

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: Radio Moscow sounds strange tonite

Message-ID: <1483700012@cdp>

Date: 21 Aug 91 05:48:00 GMT

References: <20802526@1991Aug20.054723.703@anasaz>

Lines: 8

Nf-ID: #R:1991Aug20.054723.703@anasaz:-

2080252609:cdp:1483700012:000:379 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!rbernstein Aug 20 22:48:00 1991

I think the ``normal'' voice you are referring to is Vladimir Posner, originally from New York, who was the principal voice for many years;

he resigned in protest several months ago. When was the last time you tuned in to Radio Moscow?

P.S. I haven't been able to get Moscow at all the past two days on the frequencies I used to. What frequency are you getting them on at 0500?

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!pollux.usc.ed u!tsudik From: tsudik@pollux.usc.edu (Gene Tsudik)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: more translations

MD 20742 (pronto)

Lines: 6

So long as you can conceal the way in which the information is getting out (i.e. data comm on phone lines), I don't see the harm. ABC has already revealed that phone lines are irregularly open for fax and computers.

Chris

Path:

relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!ig!clev eland.freenet.edu!ai260 From: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu ("J. Fisher")

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Re: U.S. ambassador to the USSR

Message-ID: <9108210916.AA21569@cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu> Date: 21 Aug 91 09:16:05 GMT

Sender: daemon@presto.ig.com

Reply-To: ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu

Lines: 31

In article <1991Aug20.042858.12432@novell.com> tporczyk@novell.com (Tony

Porczyk) writes:

>sharon@unixland.natick.ma.us (Sharon Machlis Gartenberg) writes: SMG> I say sending a guy who doesn't know anything about the country into an SMG> incredibly sensitive political situation like the one now unfolding in the SMG> Soviet Union is ASKING FOR TROUBLE. Who knows what he'll say without

meaning

SMG> to that will send some horribly wrong signals?

TP>Like what? Just curious.

SMG>Well, like hinting we will support a popular uprising when we SMG>won't (ask the Kurdish leaders about that). Or perhaps somehow SMG>dropping a signal that the U.S. wouldn't really mind the new SMG>leadership "consolidating" power over restive republics to SMG>restore "stability" (ask the Yugoslav federal leadership about SMG>it; perhaps even Saddam Hussein believed a similar thing based on SMG>the signals he believes he got from the U.S. ambassador before SMG>invading Kuwait).

In the world of international diplomacy messages can be very subtle. For instance, referring to President Gorbachev as 'Mr. Gorbachev' implies that Gorbachev is not (no longer) President, hence that the speaker endorses the putsch.

This might be overlooked or a mode of (silent) expression too subtle for some to grasp.

ai260@cleveland.freenet.edu -orнai260%cleveland.freenet.edu@cunyvm Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!ukc!stl!dww

From: dww@stl.stc.co.uk (David Wright)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Soviet TV says "Gorbatchov in good health" - coup may be over Message-ID: <4886@stl.stc.co.uk>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:41:45 GMT

Sender: news@stl.stc.co.uk

Organization: BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, Essex, UK Lines: 26

For those stuck in front of the wrong sort of screens:

Russian deputy minister said to be flying to Crimea to see Gorby. Yeltsin tells Russian Parliament that the coup leaders are trying to leave Moscow; Parliament gives him authority to have them stopped.

Commentators are already talking about what will happen after it's over, and the respect Yeltsin has gained in the USSR and the West. The resolution of the leaders and people of the Republics that make up the Soviet Union may well have turned this potential disaster into a victory for democracy and perestroika. The 'old guard' are now discredited and if as seems likely their coup has

failed the process of reform can move ahead far more smoothly than before.

Thanks to Albert Langer and Tom Kimball, whose analysis showed the reasons why the coup might fail.

Regards, "None shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity" David Wright BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA, UK

dww@stl.stc.co.uk <or> ...uunet!mcsun!ukc!stl!dww <or> PSI%234237100122::DWW "The Krushchev cycle of action and reaction starts again, and yesterday's

coup will eventually be followed by another move forward. It could be days, or months, or years. But come it will, and sooner than it did last time." Jonathon Steele, The Guardian 20 August 1991

Make that 'hours'

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zazen!schaefer.math.wisc.edu!mue ller From: mueller@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Carl Mueller) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Can It Be Over?

Message-ID: <1991Aug21.123901.15373@schaefer.math.wisc.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:39:01 GMT

Reply-To: mueller@math.wisc.edu

Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

Lines: 5

CNN this morning (7:45 cdt) is reporting that Yeltsin has announced that the `Gang of Eight' was arrested on its way to the airport. They stress that this is unconfirmed, but if this is true, this thing is over. Right?

Carl Mueller (mueller@math.wisc.edu)

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!samsung!news.cs.indiana.edu!gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu From: gasser@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Gasser)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: Coup collapsing?

Summary: Putsch leaders may be on the run

Message-ID: <1991Aug21.075306.10182@news.cs.indiana.edu>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:52:57 GMT

Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

Lines: 18

The BBC reports troops are moving away from the Russian Parliament building.

Yeltsin announces 8 junta leaders are headed for the airport; he orders the

airport closed.

French news agency reports coup leaders arrested.

One official reports contact with Gorbachev, the first since the coup.

Communist Party leadership asks that Gorbachev be given a chance to

explain his version of what's going on.

Michael Gasser

Indiana University, Computer Science Department

Bloomington, IN 47405 USA

gasser@cs.indiana.edu (812) 855-7078

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohioнstate.edu!swrinde!emory!att!bu.edu!transfer!lectroid!vineland.pubs .stratus.com From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet

Subject: BBC Reports the Tanks in Moscow are RETREATING!!! Message-ID: <7270@lectroid.sw.stratus.com>

Date: 21 Aug 91 12:42:12 GMT

Sender: usenet@lectroid.sw.stratus.com

Lines: 5

At 8:30 EDT this morning, the local radio news reported the Army's

tanks are

retreating, and the leaders of the coup are on their way to the airport!! I

hope this is true!! NBC reported earlier that the crowd captured 9 tanks!

Laurie Mann, 12 Shady Lane Ave., Northboro, MA 01532-1729

Path: relcom!demos!fuug!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-

state.edu!usc!apple!ig!cat.syr.edu!anderson From: anderson@CAT.SYR.EDU (Joseph Anderson)

> COuld you give me addresses to people in the USSR that I could write > to. Thanks!!! ...

> Hey, I have a question. I am somewhat familiar with outdials in > the US. Is there any way to do the same in the USSR? ...

> For historical reasons, could you post some of these Emails? ... -----------------------------------------------------------------н-----I don't mean to be a jerk but:

1. The people I'm in touch with in M & L are using me to get stuff out. 2. There is much I'd like to say to them, but THEIR DEEDS count now.

I am not writing much TO these people at the moment. I only send brief encoded+compressed summaries of what we know, and help mostly to get their stuff out here.

Nevertheless, I believe that OPEN COMMUNICATION LINES ARE ONLY USEFUL IF THEY ARE USED, AND USED SENSIBLY. I suggest that people who are interested look in "comp.mail.maps" (etc.) for addresses of "postmasters": these are people who can respond and organize

correspondence as appropriate to their local situations. Many will be busy, so don't be disappointed if they do not reply. Some will not be sympathetic to you, so be discreet in your initial contacts. All of them communicate well enough to understand sincerity in any language.

If YOU are willing to relay information INTO the SU, focus your attention and energy (and believe me, it takes energy) on people outside Moscow and Leningrad: you can find, for example, a map of sites in the Ukraine.

ABOVE ALL, DO NOT STOP WRITING TO THESE PEOPLE ONCE THE CRISIS PASSES. THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS WHO HAVE BEEN ISOLATED FOR YEARS AND NEED TO KNOW THAT SINCERE AND SUSTAINED COMMUNICATION FOR ITS OWN SAKE IS STILL POSSIBLE.

I truly hope I have been helpful. I know its frustrating not to be able to do anything. I think all of us world-wide feel a deep anger at the people who have "led" us all into this ##### mess. Seething,

PS: Feel free to contact me (again) by e-mail if you wish. __________________________________________________________________ ______ Dhanesh K. Samarasan, | Telephone: 617.666.3976 Building 5, Room 211, | Telefax: 617.253.2660 MIT, Cambridge, | Internet: dks@mit.edu MA 02139, USA | AppleLink: dks __________________________________________________________________ ______